Padre J Roulston

Fun Discussion

24 posts in this topic

I'm hoping to start just a fun discussion here. :)

 

If we look at Genesis 6:4 (NIV)

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown

Where nephilim are otherwise known as demigods, or half-human half-god children, such as Hercules, Perseus, Theseus, etc.  

And the "sons of God" are (in this case) fallen angels. (Who I believe became the false gods of other nations)

So angels can have children that are more than just human.

 

Then in Luke verses 26-38 the angel Gabriel went to Mary to tell her that she would be the mother of Jesus. 

However isn't is conceivable that instead of the Holy Spirit coming upon Mary, that Gabriel copulated with Mary, to produce a child that was more than human?

 

I'm not saying I believe this (I REALLY don't :) ) but I think it might be fun do discuss. 

 

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Like Hercules and those other Greek heroes?  I've heard that theory a few times before.  I've also heard that the idea of "son of God" was added later to make Christianity more appealing to the polytheist Romans.

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I guess it goes like this, if one believe's in the Word of God and so believes one part of the Bible e.g Genesis, then the rest must follow as Truth. 

 

The Bible says Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, not Gabriel- so that too should be accepted as Truth. 

 

There are many, many things in the Bible i do not understand nor can explain. 

 

Sorry if this puts a damper on your topic, I don't mean to  :)

Big Al One likes this

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Sorry everyone I haven't been feeling well. I started this topic when I was feeling not bad, but bleh :/ I hate being sick :(

I'll get back to comment when I'm feeling a bit better. 

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I dunno, I find it really hard to tune into my creativity with Christianity.. they have a story of their own.. if we start adding Greek mythology to it.. that surely is a big change up.. I wouldn't say its unoriginal, but to me it is.. first time I'm striking into this idea.. i think its great.  

 

Wait a min didn't they do that with ..Chronicles of Narnia 

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How can an angel. A heavenly spiritual being manufacture human compatible sperm?

There are many similar species that can create offspring... Some of which are even viable. So it is safe to assume that an angel is close enough to human to be compatible.  

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Angels are spiritual beings that walk in different dimensions. They are made from different material if they even exist. We've evolved to be apes that lack much hair.

Have you ever read Greek and Roman mythology. They believe that Gods can intermingle with humans. That is the stuff myths are made of.

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There are many similar species that can create offspring... Some of which are even viable. So it is safe to assume that an angel is close enough to human to be compatible.

total rubbish. For an intelligent man you are sounding mightily obtuse. And by the way, my troll post was fiction. I have better things to do with my time.

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myth
miTH/
noun
 
  1. 1.
    a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
     
     
     

So is it a myth. Yes. That doesn't mean however that it isn't, or can't be true. 

 

 

And yes there are many similar creatures that can procreate together. Such as the various bovine species, same with the equine species. Many deer can also interbreed. 

 

So I fail to see how I'm being obtuse given this. I have given real plausible answers to your question/comments

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myth

miTH/

noun

  • 1.

    a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

So is it a myth. Yes. That doesn't mean however that it isn't, or can't be true.

And yes there are many similar creatures that can procreate together. Such as the various bovine species, same with the equine species. Many deer can also interbreed.

So I fail to see how I'm being obtuse given this. I have given real plausible answers to your question/comments

If you stand back and be honest with yourelf, you will see how ridiculous this topic is.

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I'm hoping to start just a fun discussion here. :)

Luke verses 26-38 the angel Gabriel went to Mary to tell her that she would be the mother of Jesus. 

However isn't is conceivable that instead of the Holy Spirit coming upon Mary, that Gabriel copulated with Mary, to produce a child that was more than human?

I'm not saying I believe this (I REALLY don't :) ) but I think it might be fun do discuss. 

I'll play with this concept for a moment.

Yes, it is conceivable that Gabriel (in thought) could have had relations with Mary to produce a child that was more than human.

But, in doing so, that would make our Saviour less than the God He is. . .

Being a demigod is particularly an insult because - sure - while it beats out being a human. . .you never quite fully make it to "Godhood" status.

As the Bible states, we were created a little lower than the angels.  When we receive the new and more glorious body, we will be in a position to judge angels. . . .  This is to say, slightly above them.  Now, at first thought this seems great, but the level of responsibility that goes with that, quite frankly, unsettles me.  Hell, I'm hardly living up to the standard of what God expects me to be as a  human in my current position. . .

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How can an angel. A heavenly spiritual being manufacture human compatible sperm?

 

There are many similar species that can create offspring... Some of which are even viable. So it is safe to assume that an angel is close enough to human to be compatible.  

 

Angels are spiritual beings that walk in different dimensions.

Angels, Christopher are interdimensional beings, not 'ghosts.'  They actually have visible form and there's a chance that many (or even all) of us has seen one at one time or other and not known about it.  Secondly, there are several variations of angels.  Not all varieties of angels would have the ability to procreate with man or procreate at all.  Now, the Nephilim (defined as 'the fallen ones'), were apparently of an angel variety that could procreate with man - specifically, human women.  It is said in the Bible that "they saw that the daughters of man were fair and took to them wives. . . ."  This opens up something interesting.  You would figure that the appearance of angels are all pretty or good looking.  Well, if the male Nephilim have the ability to reproduce with female humans where are the female Nephilim?  Now, to suit myself as an example, I'm not saying that I dislike 'white women.'  But, as a guy, Asian women (and in particular, island women), appeal more to me.  I would suspect that the male Nephilim think about their own female counterparts in the same manner - I say "counterparts" because as it is told in the Bible, there is no marriage or the giving of marriage in heaven. . . .So, they have no wives. . . .unless they marry them here on earth. . . .

Is there going to be sex in heaven?  I would think so, but before we get too excited about that non-issue we really ought to consider just how we're behaving down here on earth.

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I'll play with this concept for a moment.

Yes, it is conceivable that Gabriel (in thought) could have had relations with Mary to produce a child that was more than human.

But, in doing so, that would make our Saviour less than the God He is. . .

Being a demigod is particularly an insult because - sure - while it beats out being a human. . .you never quite fully make it to "Godhood" status.

As the Bible states, we were created a little lower than the angels.  When we receive the new and more glorious body, we will be in a position to judge angels. . . .  This is to say, slightly above them.  Now, at first thought this seems great, but the level of responsibility that goes with that, quite frankly, unsettles me.  Hell, I'm hardly living up to the standard of what God expects me to be as a  human in my current position. . .

God is merciful though and one cannot choose their parents. So even if born as a demigod, so long as you follow God, they it is safe to say that even as a demigod you could be saved and attain the same state as regular humans. 

 

In the case of Gabriel, Mary, and Jesus.... If the child was one ordained by God... specifically adopted by God (more so than everyone else)... Then again it is conceivable that Jesus would remain the saviour, because of that ordination, and the sacrifice of the blood. 

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If you stand back and be honest with yourelf, you will see how ridiculous this topic is.

 

Get the hell over it youre the one being damn ridiculous with your christianityphobia, acing like a little drama queen, nobody cares we can believe whatever we want

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God is merciful though and one cannot choose their parents. So even if born as a demigod, so long as you follow God, they it is safe to say that even as a demigod you could be saved and attain the same state as regular humans.

Agreed, however, we should bear in mind that the demigods were men of old - men of renown.  If I remember correctly, people of the pre-flood era lived to great ages. . . .  Now, if this is so, God would have included them in with the people He said who had continual evil in their hearts - (as a fact, the demigods and their prodigy could primarily responsible for the continued momentum of evil among the society of mankind.)  It's true that one cannot choose their parents but I would say (for that time as it is often observed today),  the fruit never falls far from the tree - and the Nephilim are a fallen tree.  The demigods drown in the flood.

 

 In the case of Gabriel, Mary, and Jesus.... If the child was one ordained by God... specifically adopted by God (more so than everyone else)... Then again it is conceivable that Jesus would remain the saviour, because of that ordination, and the sacrifice of the blood. 

Are we not adopted to God when we are saved?  I would like to think so.  I would also like to think that we are all ordained to do something for God, but a demigod - adopted and/or ordained does not have the power to pardon sins, that comes from the ultimate authority - God incarnate (Jesus).

 

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So, I'm taking Greek Mythology classes at uni at the moment, I find this topic very interesting. Although I may deviate from the Nephilim. I'm looking at things from the perspective of Apollo, who was equated to Jesus (pbuh) so that the Romans would adopt Christianity. Since there are similarities between them, even from the Quranic view. 

 

Apollo was Zeus's son, and his mother was Leto. Hera (Zeus's wife was jealous and would allow any place for Leto to rest, no place that the sun's rays touched. So there was a city that was just emerging from the waters and Leto found rest there, and she promised that her son would be the God of their city (Delphi I think).

 

I'll tell you what the Quran says of Jesus' (p) birth:

The Quran narrates the virgin birth of Jesus numerous times. The Quran states that Mary was overcome by the pains of childbirth. During her agony and helplessness, God provided a stream of water under her feet from which she could drink. Furthermore, near a palm tree, Mary was told to shake the trunk of the palm tree so that ripe dates would fall down and she could eat and be nourished. Mary cried in pain and held onto the palm tree, at which point a voice came from "beneath her", understood by some to refer to Jesus, who was yet in her womb, which said, "Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you; And shake the trunk of the palm tree, it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon you. And eat and drink and calm thy mind." That day, Mary gave birth to her son Jesus in the middle of the desert.

Mary carried baby Jesus back to her people. The Quran goes on to describe that Mary vowed not to speak to anyone that day, as God was to make Jesus, who Muslims believe spoke in the cradle, perform his first miracle. The Quran goes on to narrate that Mary then brought Jesus to the temple, where she was immediately ridiculed by all the temple elders. But Zachariah believed in the virgin birth and supported her. The elders accused Mary of being a loose woman and having touched another man while unmarried. In response, Mary pointed to her son, telling them to talk to him. They were angered at this and thought she was mocking them, by asking them to speak with an infant. It was then that God made the infant Jesus speak from the cradle and he spoke of his prophecy for the first time. He said, which are verses 19:30-33 in the chapter of Mary in the Quran:

He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!"

—Quran, sura 19 Maryam, ayat 30-33
Taken from wikipedia.
 
Now with Apollo: Hera invited the Goddess, Eileithyia, to Olympus so that at the time of Apollo's birth, Leto would have to be in great pain, and she certainly was. During the time of her labour she was near a palm tree and is said to have embraced it due to the pain.
 
When Apollo was born, he spoke immediately, proclaiming something to the effect of: "I conduct the will of Zeus/proclaim his prophecy, and my instrument is the lyre."
 
- not exactly the same, but there are some similarities that got me really excited when I read the myth of Apollo's birth.
 
So if God is equated to Zeus - since Zeus is the God that has dominion over the others, and Jesus (p) is equated to Apollo, Leto to Mary - then God slept with Mary somehow (or put a seed in her).
 
According to Islamic belief, the Holy Spirit IS the angel Gabriel, since Gabriel is the one to reach out to human in the Quran (as a messenger to all prophets) and in the Prophetic traditions when wanting to educate ordinary people on the laws of God. Based on this Islamic belief, if Gabriel is a servant of God, he would obey His will and if it's God's will that Gabriel copulates with Mary, so it would be. Angels in Islam cannot disobey God's will since they don't have free will. This goes against the belief that Nephilim are a type of angel as believed in Christianity, they are a different kind of spirit called "Jinn" - which the Devil is taught to be, not an Angel, since Jinn have free will like humans - according to the Quran.
 
I'm sorry to have gone off topic so, my mind just runs rampant with these things :)

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Don't be insulted but this reminded me so much of the Silmarillion. In a way that I think compliments both Tolkien and the authors of the Bible. Tolkien was certainly inspired by the Bible and Norse myths.

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