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Here is something worth reading if you have some problems with Islam.

 

http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSContents.jsp

Navigate to 'findings and insights'

Scroll down to 'catalogue of findings'

 

Jump down to "A Catalogue of Findings", looking specifically at 'emancipative values'.

The WVS is a huge study encompassing 60 countries in 6 waves from 1981-2014.

To summarise:

Emancipative values predict greater well-being, shifts towards democracy and equality.

The presence of Islam weakens emancipative values.

BUT, high education removes the effect between Islam and emancipative values.

 

So while today at this point in time, Islam on average is causing the world a degree of strife and may weaken emancipative values, education is the answer.

Promoting global education is one possible way of removing the negative effects of Islam.

Discriminating against, and condemning Islam is easy to do. Fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger, and anger leads to condemnation.

We all have the human propensity to take the easiest road out of a complex situation.

Compassion and empathy wouldn't be so highly valued unless they were hard. Their difficulty requires us to look long and hard at ourselves, our preconceived beliefs about others, and to open up our imagination to other, more positive alternatives.

 

Anti-gun lobbyists claim that guns are an American problem. But the right to own a firearm is a constitutional right. Mental health is the underlying cause of gun violence. Guns themselves are not directly to blame although the absence of guns would certainly end gun violence (perhaps increasing other forms of violence).

 

Anti-islamists claim that Islam is a global problem. But it is a universal human right to practice a religion free from persecution. Poor education is the underlying cause of radical Islam. Islam itself is not directly to blame, although the absence of Islam would certainly end radical Islam (perhaps increasing other forms of radicalism).

 

Hate is easy, compassion is hard.

WWJD?

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WWJD? In the bible there are plenty of references about warring clans and death. I see no problem in expelling all terrorists and being hesitant about all Muslims in general til we have.

There is a big difference between being cautious, being PC, and being a martyr. I stick with cautious.

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Anti-islamists claim that Islam is a global problem.

Identifying radical-Islamic terrorists does not make one an Anti-Islamist, when they openly accept responsibility for their actions.

 

But it is a universal human right to practice a religion free from persecution.

Please convince them of this, while they remove the heads of local Christians AND people of other faiths.

Islam itself is not directly to blame, although the absence of Islam would certainly end radical Islam (perhaps increasing other forms of radicalism).

I tend to agree.

Hate is easy, compassion is hard.

Easy to say when no pressure is involved.

WWJD?

I can tell you what Jesus would do.  First, He would address the peaceful, fundamental Islamists to keep their red-headed step child in check.  And if the majority of peaceful Islamists put up their helpless little hands, He would smite the radicals into oblivion.

aeolian mode likes this

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Identifying radical-Islamic terrorists does not make one an Anti-Islamist, when they openly accept responsibility for their actions.

Didn't say that it did?

Please convince them of this, while they remove the heads of local Christians AND people of other faiths.

Point was only that religion isn't the thing to be aiming to get rid of or directing fear or hate towards.

Carefully examine these words.

Edited. Thanks!

Easy to say when no pressure is involved.

What do you mean?

 

I can tell you what Jesus would do.  First, He would address the peaceful, fundamental Islamists to keep their red-headed step child in check.  And if the majority of Islamists put up their helpless little hands, He would smite the radicals into oblivion.

? Are we talking about the same Jesus?

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I was reading the newspaper yesterday and I had an epiphany about American gun laws.... All these guys who go shooting up a school and on killing sprees mainly have one thing in common, theyre virgins.... sex is obviously the answer here. That and a sense of entitlement that most youngsters seem to have.

 

And reguarding the religious problem, i really dont believe more education is the answer here, the ones that seem most radical are the doctors, medical students, ones studying for business or accountancy. I dont know why they do what they do but i dont think its because theyre not smart.

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I was reading the newspaper yesterday and I had an epiphany about American gun laws.... All these guys who go shooting up a school and on killing sprees mainly have one thing in common, theyre virgins.... sex is obviously the answer here. That and a sense of entitlement that most youngsters seem to have.

 

And reguarding the religious problem, i really dont believe more education is the answer here, the ones that seem most radical are the doctors, medical students, ones studying for business or accountancy. I dont know why they do what they do but i dont think its because theyre not smart.

 

Click the link and follow the prompts. Education is empirically supported as the answer. Education isn't the only reason. Just one than mitigates religious radicalism. Considering the many other positives that education affords people I think it's the most appropriate answer.

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Compassion in times like this is also useless and will most likely cost lives.

It sucks for those Muslims that aren't terrorists right now, being profiled along with the terrorists. But I'd rather they were just a little miserable than to have everyone feeling compassion to all Muslims (cause let's face it, in day to day life you won't know who's a terrorist) and have people dying because of it.

Here's something interesting. Want to support a religious cause and not just the "fun topic of the moment", preach tolerance to everyone about the LDS church. Because (having been a member) I know other religions still slander them at every turn.

2 examples:

I worked for a carpet cleaning business and we had to clean the carpets of a church (can't remember what branch specifically, but christian). And I found anti-Mormon literature in the room where they taught children's classes... nothing like getting hate started young.

I went to church with a friend when I was younger (Baptist church) and the preacher spent the whole sermon talking about how evil the Mormons were. I'm pretty sure he knew I was there and what faith I was.

Not to mention the rally that was made by again the Baptist church saying they had to convert all the Mormons to save them (was actually on the news).

And then of course all the general misinformation that people constantly say about how all Mormons have multiple wives without doing any research into the subject.

Now couple that with the fact that the Mormons were pretty much chased across the country, being persecuted at every place they stopped til they hit salt lake city (including actual battles with the u.s. military) since the formation of the church. It is plain to see that they have been persecuted since the very formation of their church.

But yet I don't hear anyone standing up for them?!

Now I am no longer an active Mormon, and it has nothing to do with their teachings. I just don't believe in organized religion, no matter who's teaching it. But I believe in freedom of religion (so long as it's not hurting anyone), and see no reason why any church (including Mormons) should be prejudiced against.

I feel less sympathy for Muslims as their religion right now is causing people to be murdered at an alarming rate. And those that do not participate in those activities are still hiding like cowards and aren't helping, not to mention actually hiding the terrorists...

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Compassion in times like this is also useless and will most likely cost lives.

It sucks for those Muslims that aren't terrorists right now, being profiled along with the terrorists. But I'd rather they were just a little miserable than to have everyone feeling compassion to all Muslims (cause let's face it, in day to day life you won't know who's a terrorist) and have people dying because of it.

Here's something interesting. Want to support a religious cause and not just the "fun topic of the moment", preach tolerance to everyone about the LDS church. Because (having been a member) I know other religions still slander them at every turn.

2 examples:

I worked for a carpet cleaning business and we had to clean the carpets of a church (can't remember what branch specifically, but christian). And I found anti-Mormon literature in the room where they taught children's classes... nothing like getting hate started young.

I went to church with a friend when I was younger (Baptist church) and the preacher spent the whole sermon talking about how evil the Mormons were. I'm pretty sure he knew I was there and what faith I was.

Not to mention the rally that was made by again the Baptist church saying they had to convert all the Mormons to save them (was actually on the news).

And then of course all the general misinformation that people constantly say about how all Mormons have multiple wives without doing any research into the subject.

Now couple that with the fact that the Mormons were pretty much chased across the country, being persecuted at every place they stopped til they hit salt lake city (including actual battles with the u.s. military) since the formation of the church. It is plain to see that they have been persecuted since the very formation of their church.

But yet I don't hear anyone standing up for them?!

Now I am no longer an active Mormon, and it has nothing to do with their teachings. I just don't believe in organized religion, no matter who's teaching it. But I believe in freedom of religion (so long as it's not hurting anyone), and see no reason why any church (including Mormons) should be prejudiced against.

I feel less sympathy for Muslims as their religion right now is causing people to be murdered at an alarming rate. And those that do not participate in those activities are still hiding like cowards and aren't helping, not to mention actually hiding the terrorists...

 

I'm not preaching for people to sympathise with Islam. When I'm preaching for people to sympathise with muslims I'm meaning to sympathise with the person behind the religion.

Regardless of whether you're christian, mormon, or muslim, every member of those religions is a person who is acting in the way they believe is the appropriate way to behave in the world, given their experience and education.

 

I should add that the musilm immigrants in developed countries that feel 'just a little miserable' feel that way because they're being discriminated against. Muslims who are discriminated against are more likely to exhibit a reactive identity, that is, become more muslim in the face of discrimination. This means that the most extremely devout of muslims are being pushed into ISIL level radicalism and are causing atrocities.

Ref: Europe and Islam: Crescent waxing, cultures clashing - Timothy M. Savage

Ref: Europe's Muslim Youth: An inquiry into the politics of discrimination, relative deprivation, and identity formation - Barbara Franz

 

People are dying constantly. Yes it's horrific. I'm not religious, but if any bible story ever resonated with me it was the crucifixion. Forget about the resurrection and Jesus' god status and consider that at some point in history, a preacher man was sentenced to death and he went willingly and in good faith to show the world that acts of compassion in the face of fear and death can resonate beyond death and throughout history.

Think about it. The only think that ever stops me from doing the right thing from smiling to a stranger, to giving to the needy etc. has been fear. Fear of rejection, fear of being scammed, fear of being harmed.

 

"But I don't hear anyone standing up for them?" - Do you think that someone should stand up for them?

Maybe you could be the person to stand up for them. Don't use other peoples lack of compassion as an excuse to not act with compassion.

 

Again, please follow the link and prompts. All religions, Christianity possibly coming in at a close second, have caused thousands of people to be murdered. Consider the witch hunts in Europe and colonial America. This was arguably religion at work, or arguably a maladaptive interpretation of religion combined with poor education.

Stop blaming Islam because it is the easy thing to do. In the same way that blaming guns for gun violence is the easy thing to do.

 

Don't be so quick to cast the first stone and call muslims who're not actively helping, cowards. Not until you fully understand their situation and the discrimination they face. Don't use other peoples' inaction to justify your own. Importantly though, I don't want to come across as a moral arbiter. I'm not perfect myself.

Aris, I am sure that at many points in your life, people have stereotyped you, and perhaps looked upon you with prejudice, whether for once being Mormon or maybe even just because of your occupation, the colour of you skin etc. You will know what it feels like when someone puts you in a neat little category full of assumptions because it made you easier to understand for them. You will know, just as any other person will know, that the extent of your being is more complex and unique than 'mormon', or 'ex-mormon'.

I can imagine that if this is the case you might feel a degree of bitterness. People did not rise to defend your uniqueness when it was threatened, why should you rise to defend others?

If my assumptions about your experience are true, then you ARE owed an apology, but please don't let that stop you from doing what you know is right by others.

If we want to make the world a better place, we have to stop doing this. Stop putting people in neat little categories and start orienting to what we share, not just what makes us different.

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I am almost at a lack of words for that little spiel there.

For one, I've never wanted an apology or expected one. Everybody has hardships thrust upon them for stupid reasons. It is just a fact of life. And another fact is that no matter what happens the only person you can count on to improve your situation is yourself.

It's a beautiful and naive theory that everyone should have people standing up for them. But that doesn't happen in this world, and trying to convince people it should is just setting them up for failure when they receive no help.

Last snippet. Mormons are christians, no reason to seperate them in your previous post.

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I am not politically correct so by todays standards my opinion will always be considered racist. How the definition has changed since the original deffinition

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I have Muslim friends and I have been to the Middle East--especially Afghanistan.   There I met many honourable Muslims whom I count as friends to this day.

 

I do have great reservations about the religion itself.   I believe that because it was a religion started by a "warrior prophet," and because there were so many battles to expand the sphere of Islam, it relies too heavily on violence to achieve its objectives.   There are just too many passages in the Quran that counsel violence for me to not have reservations with it.   I believe that ISIS is practicing the kind of Islam that was practiced in the 6th ad 7th centuries A.D.  

 

That said, the vast majority of Muslims want to live in peace and to have a real future for their children.   The problem with Islam is that it is like a car left idling outside a convenience store--any miscreant can jump into it and take it for a joyride.   Christianity has been perverted many times, and grossly so, but violence in the name of Christianity goes against Christ's teachings.   Radical Muslims can find justifications for violence all too easily in the Quran and the Hadiths.  

 

It should be said that I also don't have much use for Roman Catholicism or Orthodox Judaism.

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I am almost at a lack of words for that little spiel there.

For one, I've never wanted an apology or expected one. Everybody has hardships thrust upon them for stupid reasons. It is just a fact of life. And another fact is that no matter what happens the only person you can count on to improve your situation is yourself.

It's a beautiful and naive theory that everyone should have people standing up for them. But that doesn't happen in this world, and trying to convince people it should is just setting them up for failure when they receive no help.

Last snippet. Mormons are christians, no reason to seperate them in your previous post.

 

Good point about Mormons and Christians.

 

I agree that it's a fact of life. People have hardships thrust upon them. I also agree that often you can only count on yourself to improve your situation, but not always.

You can argue that slaves had only themselves to count on to improve their situation. But non-slaves stood up to help them.

Heck, I just stood up for you! Aris, you deserve an apology for the hardships that people have thrust upon you. You don't have to want or expect me to do that.

No backsies.

 

People do have the capacity to stand up for each other. Just because they often fail does not mean they cannot.

A social shift towards empathy and understanding could reduce the number of 'failures'.

And you're right, the only people we can count on to do that is ourselves. Lets start with us.

I'm not standing up for you because I expect you to appreciate it. I'm doing it because I know it's right.

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I have Muslim friends and I have been to the Middle East--especially Afghanistan.   There I met many honourable Muslims whom I count as friends to this day.

 

I do have great reservations about the religion itself.   I believe that because it was a religion started by a "warrior prophet," and because there were so many battles to expand the sphere of Islam, it relies too heavily on violence to achieve its objectives.   There are just too many passages in the Quran that counsel violence for me to not have reservations with it.   I believe that ISIS is practicing the kind of Islam that was practiced in the 6th ad 7th centuries A.D.  

 

That said, the vast majority of Muslims want to live in peace and to have a real future for their children.   The problem with Islam is that it is like a car left idling outside a convenience store--any miscreant can jump into it and take it for a joyride.   Christianity has been perverted many times, and grossly so, but violence in the name of Christianity goes against Christ's teachings.   Radical Muslims can find justifications for violence all too easily in the Quran and the Hadiths.  

 

It should be said that I also don't have much use for Roman Catholicism or Orthodox Judaism.

 

I think you're pretty on point there. The Qu'ran has more passages open to violent interpretation. I think possibly a reflection of the turbulent period of history it was written in.

Again, it seems to be a lack of education which leads to a violence-centric subjective interpretation.

It is easy to forget that the western world has made it's mistakes with religious fundamentalism and learnt from them. Education will de-radicalise Islam.

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I am not politically correct so by todays standards my opinion will always be considered racist. How the definition has changed since the original deffinition

Pretty sure the definition is still the same?

Prejudice based on racial stereotypes.

There is nothing directly wrong with stereotypes. And there is nothing overly unnatural about prejudice if your prejudice is empirically supported.

There is something wrong with discrimination though, when you behave in a certain manner towards an individual because of preconceived notions based on race.

 

If black americans are over represented in prison statistics, it is not racist to state that statistically, a black person is more likely to commit a crime.

If a black american walks into a store and the shopkeeper acts towards him with suspicion because of the colour of his skin... that's racist.

To the shop owner it sounds a bit ridiculous. He's only looking out for his merchandise, and based on what he knows, he absolutely should be more vigilant with black customers.

However, we have to consider the experience of the black man about whom we know nothing other than the colour of his skin. He has a loving family, and holds a full time, professional career. Suddenly, he's being treated in a manner that is unfair, simply because someone has made a statistical inference about his character.

It's more or less the same as 'innocent until proven guilty'.

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Education is a big help--although Osama bin Laden was reputedly well-educated.

 

I talked to my interpreters in Afghanistan a lot.   NONE of them had ever heard of the Holocaust.   ALL of them had been taught that Jews were a vile race and were responsible for all of the world's problems.

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Promoting global education is one possible way of removing the negative effects of Islam.

 

Are these your thoughts? (or from the report?) 

But what to teach them? We all need a foundation world view. In the West it has been shaped into scientism with the philosophical commitment to materialism which has lead many people away from the truth that life is designed. So we have educated people into a false reality. Beating the divinity out of them with the stick of scientism. Not sure that is much of an alternative. 

 

Teach them to be liberal? There are a lot of people who see liberalism as a mental sickness. 

 

Promoting globalism is just a bad idea. 

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Again, please follow the link and prompts. All religions, Christianity possibly coming in at a close second, have caused thousands of people to be murdered. Consider the witch hunts in Europe and colonial America. This was arguably religion at work, or arguably a maladaptive interpretation of religion combined with poor education.

Lets also consider the atheistic states that have murdered millions as well.

 

I am quite happy to concede that Christianity as an organized entity if now flawed because of the RCC. Any weakening in the Atheistic stronghold would lead to this Anti Christ organization pushing for power and authority again.  The RCC has much to answer for because it put its own survival above the will of God. It with held the Bible from the common man and it executed people for crimes against the RCC not crimes against society and God. 

 

The idea that education (or indoctrination into the western world view) will prevent mass murders is unwarranted. It may prevent them being done in the name of religion however because the Western world view (scientism) is false (and indeed the "global elites" are masonic lucifarians making a mockery of what they teach us)  there will never be the harmony that you think (not with out brutal supperesion first of anyone who wants to think independently from the official state view). The state is not far away from rolling out the guillotines for the likes of me for being a mental defective (truly believes in God with great conviction) or fundamentalist (because I know 9/11 was an inside job, Cameron listed believing that as being an undesirable fundamentalist) 

 

I find it interesting, even though I live in the UK, that the American government bought hundreds of guillotines not so long ago. Man can not bring about the age of enlightenment by destroying the idea of God. The only thing that does to the human mind is darken it. 

 

God is more real than we are. 

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Truth and justice matters 

 

Lets face it the  Muslims have something to be pissed off about. No matter how unpleasant the truth is it is the only thing that can save us now. The same people who bought you nine eleven the inside job are now bringing you the war on terror, the disastrous middle east policy, and the immigration crisis. 

 

Until people stop buying this crap they will keep selling it. This is why "global education" is such a poor solution. We need people to be independently minded and able to think outside of the indoctrination (education/ media) box. 

 

They also bought you dependence on the state so you do not have to invest in your family and will soon be bringing you global depopulation (although I am sure they will give it a good disguise)

 

WAKE  UP  

 

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I am quite certain that the US did not plan 9/11; nor did it plan Pearl Harbor.   In both instances, we were caught off guard.  Al Qaeda simply used our own culture against us.   By 9/11, airports and aircraft were already "gun free zones," which means that law abiding people could not have their guns with them, even if they had concealed weapons permits.   So some mangy terrorists were able to use box cutters to cow entire planeloads of people--except for Flight 93 over Pennsylvania.   Even the FAA regulations told airline personnel to never try to subdue a hijacker, because "he might have a confederate" somewhere among the passengers.   We now see that advice is patently wrong.   Do you think El Al (Israeli) airlines would ever have such a policy?

 

We had been taught to comply with hijackers' demands.   That worked with ideologues who wanted a ride to Castro's Cuba.   It did not work with Islamic terrorists, who sorted out the Jews and US military on aircraft and summarily executed them.  

 

And the twin towers?   Remember, there were tons of burning jet fuel heating up the steel girders and weakening them.   The buildings had already taken huge structural damage.   What is amazing is how long the towers stood, not that they fell down.   If there was a plot within the US government to have the twin towers felled, why not let it happen when the first Islamic terrorist group tried to blow them up in 1996?  

 

It is perhaps easier to believe in a vast conspiracy theory than to accept that our intelligence agencies were caught flat-footed, with their pants down.

 

I would actually be in favor of every airline passenger being issued a truncheon.   Anyone attempting to hijack an airplane would be beaten to a bloody pulp by scores of passengers.    And if a few obnoxious passengers spent the biggest part of their flight unconscious . . . oh, well!

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